[susan rudnicki]

Hi, Dave—Susan, the moderator here. It looks like this is the first time you have visited us—welcome!
For ease of answering, since there are a number of things here, I will insert within your note.

Hi, I live in Los Angeles and have a new hive (April) that I have just expanded to a second deep.
Please tell us what city—if you do not have a mentor (I am guessing you do not) it would help other members to know where you live to get together with you. How did you obtain the hive? A swarm, a cutout, package bees?

The bees are aggressive and wont let us near the box like a previous colony we had that sadly died from tracheal mites.
Every colony of bees is different in personality, fecundity, activity, color, size, etc. How do you know the other bees died of tracheal mites?
“Positive diagnosis can be made only by microscopic examination of honey bee tracheae.” from Clemson Cooperative Extension.

Perhaps they are guarding the box from “robbers” since we are feeding them, since it appeared they were eating up the reserves.
Feeding or not feeding syrup, the behavior is the same.
You do not say how you are feeding them. Typical Boardman (entrance feeders with a Mason jar on top) are invitations to robbing. Better to feed with a baggie feeder on top of the frames using a feeding shim, so the feed is better defended by the occupants. Also, it helps a lot to have your entrance reduced—a 2 or 3 bee wide entrance is much more easily defended. Mine are this size all year. I am assuming the feeding is due to the honey storage not being in proportion to the brood nest size. Some members are reporting having to feed to keep their bees from starving. Again, where you are located will have a big difference to do with this shortage of food. Some parts of LA are really dried up with the lack of Spring moisture.

However, we are getting accosted way far away from the hive which raises my flag.
There can be lots of reasons bees get cranky, and before assuming the genetics is the problem, you would want to investigate issues first. Is it hot? Are they crowded? Are you using proper smoking technique? Are they being inspected every 3 or 4 weeks to assess the living space? When adding a new hive body, you want to open up the brood nest by moving a few of the brood frames up into the middle of the new box. This provides new open space (you do not say if you are foundationless, but I assume you are using frames with comb guides, not foundation sheets) This also “ladders up” the queen into the new space. Are you using a queen excluder? If you are (I do not) and the lower box is crowded, this will lead to swarming and can make them testy, also.

I am thinking this colony may need re queening.
Where do you suggest we purchase a new queen from?
And what type?
I do not buy queens, since most of the breeders are using chemical treatments, large cell bees, and narrow gene selection criteria. The feral genetics of the wild caught bees are more resistant to pests and diseases. I make splits and raise my own queens from strong colonies.

I urge you to come to the next meeting and let us meet you and perhaps help hook you up with a hands on mentor!

If anyone else is experiencing mean bees, would love the hear how you are handling the situation. thanks

[susan rudnicki]

HI, Anne—regarding this last part–
if it is illegal to keep bees in LA County, then we should not proceed to do so, right? I’m not interested in being ticketed or fined. What’s up with people keeping bees in LA if it’s illegal? I should know the answer to this question prior to moving any further with this idea.

Most of the people keeping bees in greater LA are doing it “under the radar” There are only a few cities with allowances for bees—Redondo Beach, Santa Monica, Rancho Palos Verdes—my city, Manhattan Beach has no code either for or against and I work with the city departments to respond to bee calls for colonies and swarms. One of the BIG projects HoneyLove has been working on the last five years is to change the City of LA restrictive codes against beekeeping. We are very close. Please read this site for updates and history of this effort. Feasibility studies were done, public outreach and data sampling were done, etc. to present the case to the LA City Council for changing the code.
If bees cause a issue with neighbors— in other words, become a “nuisance” —they become a target for law enforcement. This does happen, which is why we are trying to be so careful on this information site to make sure new beeks are adequately educated and prepared for the responsibility of keeping bees in tight urban quarters.

[susan rudnicki]

HI, Anne—I’ll just place notes within your answers–

If your housemate kept the bees, did you have instruction in beekeeping?
No, I just moved in about a year ago and there were no bees. I’m delighted to learn about bees, just as I’ve learned how to keep our backyard chickens.

Yes, I have chickens, too. But wild, stinging insects are another sort of beast, and you are living in a city that currently does not allow beekeeping.

What happened to the previous bees?
I do not know. My understanding is that they “just left”

Whoever was keeping them should be trying to discern why they are no longer there. If they swarmed, it creates a image problem (and potentially a legal problem) for beekeepers in the city. If they died out from disease or pests that the beek was unaware of, it does not bode well for future colonies without reflection on the causes.

Have you a suit or protective clothing and basic beekeeping tools?
Lisabeth does, yes

If YOU are going to be working in the hive, protective clothing is a must.

Have you gone to the HoneyLove meetings or MoorPark teaching site?
Lisabeth has been a member of a local bee group; again, this is new to me and I have not yet done so. I found a group but they meet on Monday evenings, which is already booked for me.

HoneyLove is a group that advocates keeping bees with no artificial inputs—chemical treatments, foundations, artificial feeds. We are using feral, not package, bees. It is quite different from the mainstream, conventional approach. I mention this so that the many confusing contradictions in techniques and practices are put into context—conventional and treatment-free beekeeping are philosophically quite different.

Do you have someone more advanced to mentor you?
Only Liz and the internet. Would love to have a mentor!

HL tries to help new beeks get hooked up with mentors. Our next meeting is Sunday June 28 and listed on the website

Have you done some self-education on beekeeping technique?
Via internet and reading http://WWW.IDIOTSGUIDES.COM/HOME-AND-GARDEN/SUSTAINABLE-LIVING/BEEKEEPING-101-CHOOSING-BEST-PLACE-FOR-YOUR-HIVES/

The Idiot’s Guide is excellent for natural beekeeping

[susan rudnicki]

HI, Anne—I’ll just place notes within your answers–

If your housemate kept the bees, did you have instruction in beekeeping?
No, I just moved in about a year ago and there were no bees. I’m delighted to learn about bees, just as I’ve learned how to keep our backyard chickens.

Yes, I have chickens, too. But wild, stinging insects are another sort of beast, and you are living in a city that currently does not allow beekeeping.

What happened to the previous bees?
I do not know. My understanding is that they “just left”

Whoever was keeping them should be trying to discern why they are no longer there. If they swarmed, it creates a image problem (and potentially a legal problem) for beekeepers in the city. If they died out from disease or pests that the beek was unaware of, it does not bode well for future colonies without reflection on the causes.

Have you a suit or protective clothing and basic beekeeping tools?
Lisabeth does, yes

If YOU are going to be working in the hive, protective clothing is a must.

Have you gone to the HoneyLove meetings or MoorPark teaching site?
Lisabeth has been a member of a local bee group; again, this is new to me and I have not yet done so. I found a group but they meet on Monday evenings, which is already booked for me.

HoneyLove is a group that advocates keeping bees with no artificial inputs—chemical treatments, foundations, artificial feeds. We are using feral, not package, bees. It is quite different from the mainstream, conventional approach. I mention this so that the many confusing contradictions in techniques and practices are put into context—conventional and treatment-free beekeeping are philosophically quite different.

Do you have someone more advanced to mentor you?
Only Liz and the internet. Would love to have a mentor!

HL tries to help new beeks get hooked up with mentors. Our next meeting is Sunday June 28 and listed on the website

Have you done some self-education on beekeeping technique?
Via internet and reading http://WWW.IDIOTSGUIDES.COM/HOME-AND-GARDEN/SUSTAINABLE-LIVING/BEEKEEPING-101-CHOOSING-BEST-PLACE-FOR-YOUR-HIVES/

The Idiot’s Guide is excellent for natural beekeeping

[susan rudnicki]

Hi, Anne—I am the moderator here for HL. It is important to us to foster a responsible, safe community of beeks and so we should find out a few things before we hand off swarms or cutouts to newbees. It is important to the impression of the public that bees are being managed in the urban environment so that swarming is prevented and inspections are done regularly and knowledgeably. So, I have a few questions for you–
If your housemate kept the bees, did you have instruction in beekeeping?
What happened to the previous bees?
Have you a suit or protective clothing and basic beekeeping tools?
Have you gone to the HoneyLove meetings or MoorPark teaching site?
Do you have someone more advanced to mentor you?
Have you done some self-education on beekeeping technique?
Thanks for getting back with some feedback so we can help you. Susan

[susan rudnicki]

I perused this article mentioned and the listing of plant families identified as sources of the pyrrolizidine alkaloids. The thing is, I know that MANY of these plants are also used by honey bees extensively for nectar and pollen—the Boraginaceae family and the Asteraceae. One could argue that poisons from the honey made from these sources “caused” a liver breakdown, but we are also surrounded by so many PCB’s, outgassing plastics, resins, textiles, and food packaging products, and myriad chemicals from air, water and soil, that I find the attribution of a malady from one particular insult pretty difficult to assign.

[susan rudnicki]

Hi, Conventional bee keeping techniques involve the use of bees from breeders genetically selecting certain traits for their “usefulness” to humans—but traits not necessarily useful to the bees—things such as making less propolis, building up faster in Spring, etc. Conventional techniques are also commonly using bees artificially “large cell” or bees upsized from the size of feral, survivor bees. These larger sized bees are more susceptible to pests and diseases vectored by parasites so must be “propped up” with medicines and treatments delivered into the hives—the “strips” I believe you refer to in your first message. Not all citrus is sprayed—if certified organic, a orchard is prohibited from using certain chemical sprays. But bees do not “read the books” and can not be directed from entering any particular area that has not been treated with agricultural chemicals—herbicides, pesticides, fungicides. This is why folks who are concerned about their bees encountering these chemicals tend to NOT set their bees into migratory pollination schemes.

[susan rudnicki]

Hi, you may find it difficult to get this varietal honey from folks like us as we tend to not set our bees down in commercial orchards where bees get exposed to a toxic cocktail of herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. Chemical treatments in the hive are done by conventional beeks.

[susan rudnicki]

Karim— I track them by the source, which also helps me remember their story of development—Santa Monica Trash can bees, Sherry bees (a woman who got two hives in the same meter box, 9 mos apart, and I took both, so there is Sherry bees #1 and #2) Hive Scale bees, Francoise’s bees, from which I made a split (when THEY make a split, it is called a “swarm”—the reason this is different is because often the beek loses 50% of the bees from the mother hive. When you make the split, this is not the situation. You were lucky. Also, if strong enough, the mother hive will make later swarms unless you address the underlying cause for swarming) Many beeks number the hives, especially beeks with lots of hives. Josip Benko does this.
I know this does not address your notebook issue! Unless you write in pencil, I guess. I am glad you are “overthinking” it—too many don’t keep records at all! Susan

[susan rudnicki]

HI—there is not a formal list for signing up to receive bees. I post with swarms in a box taken by a commercial operation that removes bee swarms here in the South Bay, but there have been few to offer this Spring. So, watch this site and stay on a daily digest of the posts.
Several things can be done for the area you live in—make contact and join the bee clubs so you expand your social circle. People finding and taking swarms talk about it and sometimes offer to help newbees get their first hive. Please be sure you have your protective clothing, basic tools, and VERY importantly, some reading of the manual we recommend at HL—“the Idiot’s Guide to Beekeeping” A newbee needs to be clear on the society of the hive and the various stages of growth and development.
See if you can contact businesses who take bee swarms to offer to house the bees. Police, Fire, Animal Control, and Public Works departments are the bureaucracies who often get swarm calls from citizens. The county apiary inspector, Conrad Burns, also has a list of responders. 626-459-8894. Stay in touch with your mentor and be prepared to pay him/her for his time in teaching you.

[susan rudnicki]

Excellent! Now, have you read the “Idiot’s Guide” (sorry about the name—you are not a idiot— but the need to understand the castes of characters and the yearly waxing and waning of the hive population is VERY important to get clear in your mind) For instance, the hatching and development times required by workers, drones and queens should be a first memorization step. Michael Bush, in his book on-line —the Practical Beekeeper, Beekeeping Naturally—calls it “Bee Math” When you know these parameters you are able to predict situations about the bees and know if you have problems before a BIG problem develops. Susan

[susan rudnicki]

OH! the box looked old, so I was thinking you might have had bees in it previously. Are you getting active mentoring in beekeeping? Do you have your protective wear and some basic tools? Also, have you read the “Idiot’s Guide” our basic recommendation for getting started with understanding the workings of a beehive? Do you come to the HL meetings?
We are set up to help with newbees getting started, so let me know the answers to the above! Susan

[susan rudnicki]

Well, if it were me, I would just leave them alone and see what happens. Do you have any drawn combs in frames that can be placed in with them?
Susan

[susan rudnicki]

Hi, Nora—as it happens, though I am a mentor located in Manhattan Beach and a HL member (I do a lot of the events for education outreach, such as what you mentioned in your other note) I helped a new beek out in Monterrey Park just a couple weeks ago. Pat Chin, at pachin@charter.net
626-576-7958 She is a former school teacher and very organized, intelligent, and patient. It would help you to hook up with her. Also, to widen your social group with other beeks of varying degrees of knowledge, I urge you to join HoneyLove. It can ONLY be positive help. (did someone in our group get the bees and “set you up”? Did he not offer to mentor you? it would be helpful to know the history of your management—how often the brood nest is inspected, how many deep or medium boxes they are in now, and other details)
You have had your hive quite awhile, in comparison to many in the group. I would be careful of getting bogged down with all the posts and blogs on the Internet—it can be very confusing, since the majority of beeks in the world are using package bees, treating with chemicals for pests and disease, monitoring constantly for these things, using wax or plastic foundation, using queen excluders and other heavy management. Also, most are living in temperate climates, very dissimilar to our own. In HoneyLove, we avoid these inputs as they can affect the health of the bees very negatively.
I would urge you to read a basic book that is in harmony with the style I advocate and it is listed on our website as the beginner’s guide—
“The Idiot’s Guide to Beekeeping” by Herboldsheimer and Stiglitz. Also, our go-to source for best practices is Michael Bush who wrote “The Practical Beekeeper—Beekeeping Naturally” His entire book does not need to be purchased as he has it all on-line at http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

Finally, though it does seem there are lots of different ways of doing the same thing or finding a remedy for the same problem, these are all tools you assemble for the “toolbox” of your knowledge, to be used selectively when you want to solve a problem. In other words—there is often NOT just ONE right answer. Several things might work, and each might be a little more or less successful, depending on the circumstances!
call me if you need more information Susan, moderator for HL
310-374-4779

[susan rudnicki]

Well, that is often something I have to point out to people—that just because bees are in a place does not mean they HAVE to be taken away! I got your voice mail, but today was particularly busy with a big under shed floor cutout that I must go back to tonight to close up and help the adoptive parent load in his truck. I will get to you! susan

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