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3 queen swarm….

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  • #8684
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    Beeks—this was a very interesting situation—

    three queen swarm?
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    Susan Rudnicki <susanrudnicki@gmail.com>

    9:36 PM (19 hours ago)

    to Michael
    Michael—I think you are the one to ask this of—

    Tonight about 8, Ray and I were getting a swarm 3 blocks from my house on the wood chip path. The bees were on the front tire of the maintenance man’s truck. I scooped them very handily into Ray’s nuc and we were waiting for the 20 or so stragglers to go in the door, when I noticed a few dead bees just below where the cluster had been hanging, mixed in with the wood chips. Then I saw, one of the dead was a queen! And then, ANOTHER dead one was a queen!! What does this mean? 3 queens in a swarm? They look like virgin queens–not real long yet. But the orange back legs and all the other signs of a queen. Now, when I had checked this job at 3 when I got the call from the city, I actually saw a queen moving in and out of the cluster—which I’ve never seen before. This is all very queer. I put the 2 dead queens in a pill bottle and brought them home. Susan
    Can you explain this?
    Michael Bush

    2:59 AM (14 hours ago)

    to me
    Multiple queens in a swarm have been observed as far back as Huber at
    least…

    http://www.bushfarms.com/ huber.htm# MultipleQueensInSwarm

    I’d say there are two likely causes. One is that in the confusion of
    the swarm’s exodus several confined virgins escape (this would be in an
    afterswarm). The other, which I’ve often observed is that when one hive
    in an apiary swarms, it sets off others and in the confusion the bees
    don’t really know which swarm they belong to and neither do the queens,
    resulting in more than one swarm converging as time goes on, into one.

    Michael

    #8694
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    Here is what Josip mailed back to me about this observation—

    Hello Susan,

    Situation that you described is normal in present season of bee swarming. Why? Because for many bee colonies, swarming in Sothern California (since May to August approximately) in this time of year (it is similar in the other parts of the World with different clime) swarms are not primary or if new colony of this year swarms could be primary swarm with several queens… Secondary or other swarms always have several queens with mother queen or in most cases all queen are virgins.
    When swarm occur, several queens go with the bees too. Bee worker protect favored queen before in mother hive and in time of swarming with hope that their chosen queen will won… Also queens constantly look for opportunity in mother hive, or later in time of swarming, or in new home to attack other queens… Because bee workers sometimes are not able to protect favored queen very well in box, or in swarming flight, or in new home, queens make use of time to ride of others… Also after while beekeeper can notice that some bees gathered surrounding death queen which lost life in war with another smarter and stronger queen.

    Which queen will stay or not with the bees depend on many factor, but many times situation could be like without of opportunity for queens to ride of others before, or in swarming flight because of each group of bee workers carefully protect lovely queen… In that situation if you have opportunity to put swarm with many queens in the box, next day or later you can have a situation that swarm is out and often is noticeable that that swarm formed several small swarms in short distance of each other. After while they united in one cluster again with several well protected queens by bee workers…
    If you put that swarm in the box again with many queens (many beekeepers are not recognize swarm with several queens…) for while in the box every queen has own followers of bees from same swarm group but every queen look to survive riding of other queen. Usually it is happened in the box (hive) in day or two… All dependent on opportunity…
    Sometime some queen in the war for surviving get hurt badly that they with the follower of the bee worker swarmed out, but rescuers found after while that colony is queen-less because queen die after day or too of injury… Or sometimes, next day or day after, small number of the bees with the lovely queen (because bee workers protected lovely queen very well) swarmed out from new home looking for another new home…. Why? Because bees could not found a way witch queen to keep or not to protect…
    So really in many cases of rescue operation, rescue group received a call that swarm is too small…, size of orange or small grapefruit. That swarm was part of the original swarm with several queens that split after while because bee workers could not found common language to have one queen with larger number of bee worker in a colony…

    (You know it is like politics or a family that split on ex wife and ex husband and kids that suffered a lot… Or sometimes we can read about the worse scenario in the World that in process of splitting because of some kind conflict or… many live(s) been gone…

    So in the bees world you have some kind politics or obstinate bee workers… as well as people – opinionated…

    I hope that will help you to have better picture what happened in your bee yard.

    Thanks.
    JB

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About susan rudnicki

Been beekeeping almost 5 years now. Have 27 hives,(2 client hives) I work with the City of Manhattan Beach, re-homing bees in conflict with citizens. Allowed to keep bees at the Public Works yard (19 hives) in exchange for this work. I do many presentations for HoneyLove, teach bee students, rescue bees and sell honey.

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