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Experienced beekeeper to adopt my bees

Home Forums Bulletin Board Experienced beekeeper to adopt my bees

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #10367
    Timothy Inglish
    Participant

    I have a 1 year old feral swarm in a top bar hive. They have fully combed out approximately 10 top bars. They are defensive of their honey, but otherwise a pleasure to work with, when properly smoked and protected. I have handled the hive every other week for the last 4 months, with inspections prior to that being more sporadic. The hive is on my parent’s property in the La Crescenta area, and my wife and I are moving to the central coast. Rather than transporting the hive full of bees, We were thinking maybe someone would want the colony, assuming we can get them out of this hive and into another one. It’d be nice to retain some of the comb.

    The challenge: Since last time I opened the hive the bees have been acting quite differently. There were 3 top bars which were slightly cross-combed, which happen to be the first 3 combs in the hive. In lifting the top bar the comb, full of brood and uncapped honey, fell into the hive. I reattached a portion and brushed all of the bees off the rest and tossed it in a bucket for wax. It turns out that quite a bit of almost mature brood was in that comb, and although I didn’t see the queen, I am nervous I may have injured or killed her…

    The bees have been bearding on the outside front panel of the hive, near and around the entrance, for about 8 days since. They may have sent out a swarm (maybe 2), and have been making a noise from inside the hive that sounds like a freight train. I plan on opening the hive tomorrow to see what’s up, and will post a follow up post soon. I would appreciate an experienced beekeeper who would be willing to transfer these bees from my hive to yours.

    #10368
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    HI, Timothy—are you a HoneyLove member? Forgive me if I don’t remember you, but I go to all the meetings and am the forum moderator so know most of the TBH members.
    Firstly, in Spring, the bees are brooding up rapidly if they are healthy. Seasonally, bee’s attitudes are also variable. If you have been inspecting every other week the last four months, can you please advise prospective adopters how many frames of brood are in your colony? Ten bars built out is not very many for a year old hive—have you been harvesting honey regularly?
    Second, did your inspections reveal swarm queen cells? The swarming trajectory does not happen in just the short time since your breaking the comb—they must prepare by restricting the queen’s food intake and draw swarm cells and the earliest a queen is capped is after 8 days from a egg. What is the evidence for a swarm? You may have caused absconding by the intervention you described, which is not a organized event.
    Who has mentored you over this past year? As you have mentioned, a well educated beek is going to need to assess this hive to see if it still has a viable queen. The ONLY way to know this is to see eggs in the combs.

    #10369
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    HI, Timothy—are you a HoneyLove member? Forgive me if I don’t remember you, but I go to all the meetings and am the forum moderator so know most of the TBH members.
    Firstly, in Spring, the bees are brooding up rapidly if they are healthy. Seasonally, bee’s attitudes are also variable. If you have been inspecting every other week the last four months, can you please advise prospective adopters how many frames of brood are in your colony? Ten bars built out is not very many for a year old hive—have you been harvesting honey regularly?
    Second, did your inspections reveal swarm queen cells? The swarming trajectory does not happen in just the short time since your breaking the comb—they must prepare by restricting the queen’s food intake and draw swarm cells and the earliest a queen is capped is after 8 days from a egg. What is the evidence for a swarm? You may have caused absconding by the intervention you described, which is not a organized event.
    Who has mentored you over this past year? As you have mentioned, a well educated beek is going to need to assess this hive to see if it still has a viable queen. The ONLY way to know this is to see eggs in the combs.

    #10370
    David B
    Participant

    Hi Timothy,

    Please text me at 323-478-2625. I have an isolated beeyard. I can pick up your hive and move it tomorrow.

    David

    #10376
    Bruce Choat
    Participant

    HI, Timothy Sounds like you want to keep your hive and have the colony transferred into a new box. If so I wouldn’t mind coming over and doing the work. You can reach me at (818) 746-6276

    Bruce

    #10377
    Timothy Inglish
    Participant

    Hi Susan, I have not paid any contribution dues to Honeylove. Nor have I attended any meetings, nor do I have a mentor. I have been to a county of LA beekeepers meeting, but otherwise I am a rogue beekeeper learning on my own, mainly through internet research and Les Crowder’s video/book. The bees have approximately 10 built out top bars. I have not been harvesting honey regularly, in fact, I have not harvested any honey other than accidentally it is a large, 27 top bar hive that measures approximately 4 feet long and stands at chest height.
    My “evidence for a swarm” is that the bees have been bearding every day since my last inspection, with today being the largest beard, and different behavior/sound coming from the hive.
    I did not have a chance to look into the hive today. I plan on doing so tomorrow. I was a bit hesitant with so many bees bearding near the entrance. I definitely DO NOT plan on cutting the cross-combed top bars (The first 3 closest to the entrance are slightly cross combed) and attempting to clear all of that up tomorrow. I figure I will just do a regular inspection, look for eggs in the brood comb, look for queen cells and make sure there aren’t any other issues.
    Thanks for all of your help this far. I’ll post after I have done my inspection.

    #10378
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    Timothy—I was just trying to figure out how you speculate they have swarmed, once or twice, as you wrote. Bearding is not a sign of having swarmed. Bees don’t swarm without a queen, but they may abscond and leave the brood behind after a disturbance. If you killed the queen and they get their act together, they may draw emergency queen cells to replace their lost queen. This requires a larva no older than 4 days of age. They can not make a queen from just any age larva. I would offer the opinion, since it is my particular bent, that doing beekeeping as a “rogue” is not a good practice in the urban environment. Our collective reputations as urban beekeepers must be carefully guarded in consideration of all our neighbors who are not beekeepers. These folks do not appreciate stinging events or swarms from neglected hives. HoneyLove tries very hard to urge people to join our educational community, read the bee literature widely and acquire a mentor. We often hear from folks who drop in only when they are in trouble, and this is not really what we exist to do. I hope you can understand.
    Susan

    #10379
    Timothy Inglish
    Participant

    Thanks Susan, I do understand maintaining the overall reputation of beekeepers as a whole, and appreciate all that honey love.org has done for the beekeeping community.

    #10389
    Timothy Inglish
    Participant

    Opened the hive today. Worked it from end to entrance. I have about 18 bars of honey, a mix of capped and uncapped. There is absolutely no brood and no queen or eggs. There is 1 capped queen cell, and the beginnings of an emergency queen cell.
    This means that ten days ago when I opened the hive the last time, I removed the only comb which contained brood, and assumably the queen was either dead or I may have killed her, or, they may have swarmed shortly thereafter. I’ll wait and see what happens to the 1 queen cell. As usual the bees were very easy going to work with, and there did not seem to be any less bees than normal. I assume the bees are bearding because they don’t have a queen to tell them what to do with all of their free time.

    Thanks.

    #10390
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    OK —I will make remarks within your note—

    Opened the hive today. Worked it from end to entrance. I have about 18 bars of honey, a mix of capped and uncapped. There is absolutely no brood and no queen or eggs.

    Since worker brood take 21 days to emerge, you have been queenless longer than the 8 days since you damaged the combs on inspection. Even adding in the 3 more days till now, the “Bee Math” works out to a queenless colony for more than one brood cycle.

    There is 1 capped queen cell, and the beginnings of an emergency queen cell.

    A queen takes 16 days to emerge, so it is possible the capped cell is viable and would be a emergency QC. The other one is a dud—the math does not work for them to have had a 4 day or younger larva if they have been queenless this long. Bees in duress will often make “dud” QCs because they are so desperate to have what they need.

    This means that ten days ago when I opened the hive the last time, I removed the only comb which contained brood, and assumably the queen was either dead or I may have killed her, or, they may have swarmed shortly thereafter.

    A swarm event is more organized, as I mentioned earlier, with multiple QCs in preparation. I doubt they swarmed—they may have ABSCONDED.

    I’ll wait and see what happens to the 1 queen cell. As usual the bees were very easy going to work with, and there did not seem to be any less bees than normal. I assume the bees are bearding because they don’t have a queen to tell them what to do with all of their free time.

    First, attrition is taking place all the time, and will soon become apparent. Second, bees do not take direction from the queen. This is a common misunderstanding of colony dynamics. The workers’ behavior is driven by chemical influence of the queen’s pheromones, but even more strongly by the pheromones of the open brood. As the open brood diminish in a damaged hive, the oviarioles of WBs may develop such that they begin laying eggs which are only fated to be DRONES (since WBs don’t mate) This is called a “laying workers” colony.

    THE book to read on colony dynamics and bee society is Jurgen Tautz’s “The Buzz About Bees:Biology of a Superorganism”

    Learning “Bee Math” is essential to being a competent beek. Michael Bush has it posted here—http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm You need to be able to make calculations based on what you observe and what you can apply with math to determine the remedy for a problem, if you have one. There is no other way.

    Thanks.

    #10391
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    Timothy—My earlier answer is wrong. Since you report NO brood, there has been no laying queen for at least 21 days. A emergency queen cell must be made from a young larva and hatches, at the earliest, 16 days later, or 5 days before the last of the worker brood would emerge. But you report NO worker brood and a capped queen cell. A viable queen would have emerged before the last of the worker brood emerged.
    Also, the “beginnings of a emergency cell” are likely a queen cup, which is not a queen cell, and can not have a viable fertilized egg or larva in it anyway—too much time has elapsed since a queen was present.

    #10401
    Timothy Inglish
    Participant

    Hey Susan.

    Thanks for all of your information and helping me to diagnose whats going on with the hive. What do you suppose could happen moving forward? Should I attempt to re-queen, or just wait and see? Thanks.
    Tim

    #10402
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    Hi, Timothy—I tend to look at this with the long view. A queen is not what is needed— You have not gained the skills needed to manage a hive of feral, urban bees and this could be a invitation to later dangerous issues. In our club, there have been incidents of stinging resulting in the death of dogs and chickens, usually by people checking in on the cusp of distress, who we have never heard from before. Again, this is not what HoneyLove (or any bee club, for that matter) exists to do. Bees are wild creatures and we do not control them, but work with them. Solving the issues you have already had with “remote mentoring” is what I have ended up doing, but for you to become a competent beek, you need on-site mentoring with a experienced teacher. Please contact Tyson Kaiser, who I believe is in your area. His website is SweetBeeRemoval, 323-892-4170. He has the experience and skills needed to move you into a better place with beekeeping.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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