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Brood Looks Low…is this typical going into fall?

Home Forums HoneyLove Forum Brood Looks Low…is this typical going into fall?

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  • #9030
    Brie Walter
    Participant

    Susan, this may be a question directly for you since you’ve known my hive’s behavior, but I wanted to open it up for any experienced beeks. My hive is 5 medium boxes, just for reference.

    I did a hive check a couple days ago, and I no longer have any brook or eggs in my bottom box. The bottom box was all beebread and empty comb. There was some brood (both drone and worker) in the 3rd box up from bottom, but was not as much as in the past. There was a lot of open frames throughout the hive, and they seemed a bit rowdy by the entrance, which is unusual for them.

    I’m wondering if this is the time of year I should reduce the hive size down to 4 boxes? Is it common for bees to move eggs/brood upwards? Top box is still honey and empty comb.Last month when I checked them they had brood and eggs in bottom 3 boxes. Maybe this is normal behavior, I just haven’t ever noticed it with my bees so wanted to know if I should be concerned or take action to reduce hive space.

    Thanks!
    Brie

    #9031
    susan rudnicki
    Participant

    HI, Brie—I will copy and insert comments.

    Susan, this may be a question directly for you since you’ve known my hive’s behavior, but I wanted to open it up for any experienced beeks. My hive is 5 medium boxes, just for reference.

    I did a hive check a couple days ago, and I no longer have any brook or eggs in my bottom box. The bottom box was all beebread and empty comb. There was some brood (both drone and worker) in the 3rd box up from bottom, but was not as much as in the past. There was a lot of open frames throughout the hive, and they seemed a bit rowdy by the entrance, which is unusual for them. I WOULD CONSOLIDATE THEM, REMOVING THE UNOCCUPIED FRAMES, PUTTING THEM IN THE FREEZER FOR A COUPLE DAYS TO KILL ANY HIVE MOTH OR SHB EGGS AND STORING IN A AIRTIGHT BOX. TARGET IS SELLING SOME NICE CLEAR CRATES WITH A GASKET FITTED LID THAT IS VERY TIGHT.

    YOU DO NOT SAY IF THERE IS OPEN BROOD OR EGGS, SO I AM ASSUMING THEY HAVE NONE. IT IS THE TIME OF YEAR WHEN YOU COULD LOSE THE QUEEN, HAVE FEED ISSUES AND PEST ISSUES THAT BUILD UP OVER SUMMER —VARROA, AND ITS VECTORED DISEASES.

    I’m wondering if this is the time of year I should reduce the hive size down to 4 boxes? YOU SHOULD REDUCE IT MORE THAN THAT. PUT THE EXISTING BROOD IN ONE BOX, WITH HONEY AND BEE BREAD TO THE SIDES. PUT HONEY FRAMES, AS FULL AS YOU CAN FIND, IN A BOX ABOVE. IT SOUNDS LIKE 2 BOXES MAY BE THEIR MAX FOR RIGHT NOW. YOU DON’T SAY HOW MANY FRAMES OF BROOD REMAIN, SO HARD FOR ME TO SAY. Is it common for bees to move eggs/brood upwards? IN WINTER, THEY WILL SOMETIMES DO THIS, BUT I SUSPECT YOU HAVE A LOST OR DYING QUEEN. IF THE BEES HAVE NOT ANTICIPATED THIS LOSS BY MAKING A SUPERCEDURE QUEEN, YOU WILL SOON HAVE A DRONE LAYER, IF YOU DON’T ALREADY. SIGNS OF A DRONE LAYER ARE MULTIPLE EGGS IN CELLS, EGGS ON TOP OF BEE BREAD, EGGS ON THE SIDES OF CELLS, AND FALSE QUEEN CELLS DRAWN OUT.

    REMEMBER, WORKERS CAN NOT LAY FERTILE EGGS, SO IN THEIR STRUGGLE TO OPERATE WITHOUT THE QUEEN’S PHEROMONES, THEIR OVARIES BEGIN TO PRODUCE UNFERTILIZED (DRONE) EGGS. THE LACK OF BROOD ALSO LIMITS THE EXPOSURE OF THE WORKERS TO THE MODERATING INFLUENCE OF THE LARVA’S PHEROMONES. IF THEY MAKE FALSE SUPERCEDURE CELLS, IT COULD FOOL YOU INTO THINKING THEY HAVE THE RIGHT IDEA, BUT IN A FEW DAYS YOU WILL FIND THE CELLS TORN DOWN.

    THE REMEDY FOR THIS PROBLEM IS TO NEWSPAPER IN A SWARM WITH A QUEEN– THAT IS BEST. YOU CAN ALSO ADD A FRAME OF EGGS FROM A STRONG HIVE, SO THEY CAN MAKE A QUEEN, BUT THE LONGER THEY HAVE BEEN WITHOUT THEIR QUEEN, THE MORE ENTRENCHED THEY ARE ON THE “WRONG PATH” AND THEY MAY NOT RESPOND CORRECTLY. A FRAME A WEEK FOR 3 WEEKS IS WHAT MICHAEL BUSH RECOMMENDS, TO OVERCOME THEIR ISSUES. HOWEVER, I KNOW YOU DO NOT HAVE THOSE RESOURCES. THIS IS WHY I RECOMMEND ALWAYS HAVING AT LEAST 2 HIVES, SO YOU CAN “RAID” FOR RESOURCES AND LEARN THE DIFFERENCES IN COLONIES.

    Top box is still honey and empty comb.Last month when I checked them they had brood and eggs in bottom 3 boxes. Maybe this is normal behavior, I just haven’t ever noticed it with my bees so wanted to know if I should be concerned or take action to reduce hive space. YOU ARE JUST EXPERIENCING THE TYPICAL TYPES OF PROBLEMS, SO DON’T GET DISCOURAGED THAT YOU “DID SOMETHING WRONG” GETTING OUT ALL THAT OPEN COMB SO THEY DON’T HAVE TO GUARD IT FROM HIVE MOTH AND OTHER BUGGIES WILL HELP THEM. LEAVE THE HONEY ON, AS YOU MAY HAVE LOW FORAGE RIGHT NOW.

    WRITE BACK THE ANSWERS TO ABOVE AND LET US KNOW! SUSAN

    Thanks!
    Brie

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